Just last word: Empathy and all is good (specially since I have gone through a LOT of craps over the years myself), but till laws change, they should be followed fairly, equally and indiscriminately (bribes, non-empathetic favors and/or threats usually are the beginning of the end of a civilization)

We’ve had further interactions with Indian consulates in other countries (specifically Portugal and Chile) since Zara now has a permanent residence document for India. At every interaction when I have mentioned the San Francisco story, it has been met with shock and disbelief. I think we can agree that not all bureaucrats are bad.

Furthermore, Raj is not a bureaucrat as you are assuming. Neither is he an employee of the Indian government. Raj is part of an agency that the Indian consulate uses to accept visa applications. What’s more, this agency has been replaced ever since due to its sheer incompetence at handling applications so not all things are bad as you say ;)

But what is important to note here is that we never met any bureaucrat in this entire interaction. We met Raj, his boss at Travisa, and then we met a lady at the consulate who may or may not have been an Indian bureaucrat or could have just been desk staff at the consulate. At the most, only the lady at the consulate was a bureaucrat and the article does not mention this but when she went in to ask the visa officer if we could see him, he shouted at her (verbally belittling her with some very harsh words) and told her to get out. We were waiting outside the door and heard all this. That was the moment when we decided that we would not pursue this matter any further in San Francisco since it didn’t ‘sound’ like this visa officer wanted to be nice.

There are many things wrong with the way visas need to be applied for. This is just one of them. As for how special my circumstance was, you admit that you don’t know why we went to Las Vegas. Perhaps you are not fully aware of how special my personal circumstances at the time were? Well, the SF consulate agrees with you, so you have that :)

People from your country are fighting with these issues day and night today to get to safety and security. I think a little bit of empathy goes a long way in the world. I’m glad that you are surprised at yourself for siding with the institution on this. Maybe you will even change your mind.

I also did a quick read of your Visa for Indian section, and according to your own experience it is not an easy task for non-residents to get a visa in a 3rd country due to ‘being up to something funny’ reasons. Yes, there were a couple of cases (I think Bolivia was the one clear standout), but according to your own writing most countries deny or denied such applications (Brazil and Ecuador come to mind, but there were more). Countries like Turkey or Taiwan, etc., don’t count since there was some other agreement as you stated. And you even seem to understand why generally speaking all major countries (1st, 2nd or 3rd world) don’t grant visas to non-residents ["up to something funny"], but seems like you think that some people are ‘special’ and can talk or argue their way through something although they have seen written evidence to the contrary. And if they don’t get it their way they think it is unfair.

As I mentioned before, this is a law that is designed for security and background check reasons and as I discovered years ago applies to both western (Germany in UK) and 3rd world (India in UAE) countries. You just validate it by giving about 3-5 more examples (and only one (?) counter example – Bolivia)

(Btw, not that it matters, but although you mention that you didn’t get married in New Delhi because of corrupt beaurocracy, etc, why did you decide NOT to get married in Portugal/Spain – after all that is where Zara is from. I mean why LV? Of course your answer could by why NOT LV :) But then you can’t should ‘unfair’ if what subsequently happened to you was not convenient (not by any definition an emergency or special situation) (By definition, emergency is “a serious, unexpected, and often dangerous situation requiring immediate action” and although ‘Special’ is harder to pin down or define, lots of people get married and even come to USA to get married, so not anything extraordinary). You are generalizing the intent of the clause to fit it to your situation .

But, still long way to go… and although there may setbacks, it is my belief that things will improve and borders gradually crumble away. I am basing this on my own experiences and observations after living in the USA for over 30 years. BTW, UK is not unique, although US allows visas to a citizens parents, there are restrictions on same for children (must be unmarried and under a certain age) for immediate processing, otherwise the way can be years. And forget about siblings and other relations… can literally take decades (personal experience).

Now in continuation to where I (somewhat) disagree with you still: True some countries and even jurisdictions of even the same country (in your case India), may in some circumstances issue a non-resident visa (although I am personally not aware of this, I will take your word on this – since in the aforementioned two cases I mentioned, Germany and India, my application as a non-resident was denied), the Indian authorities still have the final word on whether they consider marriage an emergency or special situation. And yes, I know I would never thought I would side with a beaurocrat vs. a fellow traveler, I don’t think that just because it was convenient for you to get married in US and then want to decide to apply for a visa to go to India, it is up to the relevant authorities to decide if that was so. Again sorry, your travel plans got disrupted and you had to spend more money and risk sending Zara’s passport to Lisbon, but believe me much more worse thing have happened in the big scheme of things to me and people I know, you take it as it comes… enjoy the ride and make lemonade blah blah…

Correct me if I am wrong: Did the guy tell you no visa granted if not a resident as a reply to your email before you travels? I think you said maybe even twice? But YOU still decided to travel to US. Did you think he was joking or did you think he was just going to change his mind or that he was inept at doing his job. I know it is funny I am siding with an beaurocrat, but he was just following the rules. Think about it, in a different post you side with the US consular who denied the Sikh guy or the mother US Visa, from their perspective don’t you think that they had a reasonable reason for legitimetaly going to US and how ‘unfair’ it may have been to them (perhaps they travelled 500 miles from their village)… The only way you can argue your case against authorities is:
1. You can show that they are not following a current written rule you can reference (and of course that you are meeting all the requirements and clearances)
2. That they have said or committed a discriminatory act (knowingly or unknowingly) or have been misleading

And in some circumstances, even that does not matter. For example, if you come to US on a valid visa, the immigration officer has the final authority to allow or deny you entry for ANY reason whatsoever without any explanation (it has happen to a very close friend of mine)

I have travelled to a lot of 3rd world countries: India, various middle east, Pakistan, various African countries, Thailand, Indonesia and other SE countries. I just don’t go out my way to go to countries that do require visas (for example the ones I listed before), why should I? It just takes too much time and I never know when I may decide to go someplace tomorrow so need my passport all the time.

Sorry, I am rambling… if you like we can continue this conversation when you are here in California next time (or if our paths cross elsewhere in the world), we can meet and can chat over dinner and drinks (I am a good host). you have my personal email.

We were just trying to get the visa done. Being ‘naive’ world travelers as per your description, we actually do have experience dealing with several consulates around the world. You do not need to necessarily apply for visas in your country of residence. Check the Visas for Indians section on this blog. It is FULL of examples of where and how I applied for visas in different countries without being a resident there. And that was without marriage involved.

Marriage and visas for spouses are actually treated as special circumstances by several consulates of countries worldwide (including Indian consulates in other jurisdictions). In fact, within India too, marriage carries special status for visa conversions, etc. Direct family members are always afforded special circumstances when it comes to processing papers. Those are the rules. When countries do not do this you have horrendous results like the UKs currently 15,000 children separated from their parents.

And since you are accusing me of being unfair, is it fair to ask someone to travel 10,000 kms (San Francisco->Lisbon) to apply for a visa to the country of their husband? We clearly have a different definition of fair.

I find it shocking that given the fact that you avoided travel due to bureaucracy in the past, you would side with the institution on this. It looks like you avoid 3rd world bureaucracy like the plague. If the world is the way you describe it, closed borders and bureaucracy, then it needs to change.

I am actually surprised, you are such a world traveler but still so naïve about such things. I learned a long time ago that one must apply for a visa in the country of residence (or country of citizenship). Back before EU, I was visiting UK on my Iranian passport and decided to visit my relatives in West Germany. Guess what? The German authorities in London told me the same thing: I should have applied in US (my country of residence). Later in the early 2000′s I was visiting Dubai and decided to go to India to see Taj Mahal with my new wife. Guess what? The Indian consulate in Dubai told me the same thing: apply for Indian visa in US!!!

Come to think of it, only your country of residence has your background information. For example, your criminal records, tax info, etc. I didn’t get my US passport till about 10 years ago, and now I appreciate how difficult it was to travel before (and avoided travel as much as I could). Even now I avoid going to countries (been to about 50) that require American citizens to get a visa (Russia, India, China, Brazil, etc). But that is the way the world is, closed borders and beaurocracy and what not.

Finally, slightly off-topic, but I must say this: Yes, your taxes may be paying for the consulate, but that does not mean that you can should or disrespect officials, specially when they are doing their work and following the rules. The rule is clear to me as I explained previously, they decide what is emergency or special situation not convenience. Sure, all public officials are the same through out the world but would you treat the US consular in a disrespectful manner? Or for that matter the person at the local DMV office? No, but just because s/he is indian or arab or some other 3rd world national we feel like we can be disrespectful

Don’t hate, educate. Sorry if I seem a bit agitated, but I think you were not being fair

The best solution is to fly to a neighboring country in Asia and get an Indian visa there. We flew to Kathmandu and 7 days later both had a visa for less money than in Germany.

Flights from Kathmandu to Delhi are cheap with Indigo (EUR 60). Other places with cheap flights and Indian embassies to think about:
Bangkok, Thailand (60 EUR flight to Kolkata with Indigo)
Colombo, Sri Lanka (60 EUR flight with Air India to Chennai)
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia (40 EUR flight to Tiruchirappalli with Air Asia)

-Hari.